Cool... I'm part monkey. And so are you.

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:53 pm Post subject:

In talking to Sly, I think he just was concerned that there would be more trouble between people , and it takes strength of character to say what one feels as he did . Everyone is entitled to believe what they choose. I for one am a person who believes in God and also am a thinking person. To stir up controversy for its own sake is nonproductive. If someone wishes to know my beliefs that is fine; I will not TELL someone what they "have" to believe.
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Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 pm Post subject:

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:44 pm Post subject:

Ok, I am curious. Has anyone ever considered that maybe there is truth to both sides of the debate? Creationism and Evolutionism are NOT mutually exclusive. If you study both with an open mind, it becomes obvious that the two could both be correct to certain extents. I won't go into any details here, mainly because I'm entirely too lazy to type that much. Suffice it to say that I have studied both, and have concluded that both theories are just that, theories. We see proof of both on a regular basis. We also see things that maybe we cannot explain, or attribute to either theory. Therefore I am a firm believer in what I can prove, everything else is just another instance of endless possibilities.

Feel free to agree, disagree, think I'm insane, or wonder what I just said. That is your right, and I respect all views regardless.
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Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out!

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:24 pm Post subject:

A few notes concerning Noah and the flood:

He was told to bring them into the ark, but never was it stated he had to go get them. God told Noah to take two of every sort and seven of some living creatures. This would be equivalent to a kind as God had originally created. Kind being similar to what we call a family. Such as a dog. Noah did not need every type of dog just a male and female. Do I believe that the original dogs have enough genetic info to become all of the dogs we have now? Yes, I do. Well evolutionists believe that with even more time non-living material can become every living thing on earth. The difference being that I believe genetics have a designed limit per each kind and would take intelligent manipulation to go beyond this and I don’t buy the long time. To deny this would be to deny that all the varieties of dogs exist. God brought the kinds or sorts to Noah. Noah placed them on the ark. Now I would guess that these were probably all very young animals. Bible is not clear but consider this; young are smaller, eat less, sleep more, will live longer since they need to repopulate, and God is very smart. God may have even put the animals into a hibernation type of state after being on ark. Doesn’t state this, but maybe? Did they get as big after the flood, probably not? The earth completely changed. Nothing lived as long. But that has to do with the in the water and out of the water and is longer to explain, maybe later I will.

We know and can observe that most reptiles continually grow until the day they die. I am sure there is a limit in the genetics, but we currently have not been able to reach it. All we know is that if we can keep most reptiles alive they will continue to grow. Why is it hard to believe that in a paradise type of earth, that the big dinos could have been very old? Yes there are limits, but do you believe non-living matter can eventually have enough variances in it’s genes to become every living thing on earth? It should be noted that most dino fossils are small, but there definitely were some really huge ones too. Maybe these were the first or of the early generations created and had finally reached there growth limit.

The bible states that God had created many of each plant and animals, but started with only two humans. I would predict that the fossil record will show very few humans as compared to plants and animals. I also don’t believe that God used evolution, this would bring animals into being in an order that is an obvious contradiction to the order they were created according to his word. I also imagine that different creatures died at different times during the flood. Man was probably smart enough to try to survive the longest. This might put different fossils at different layers. Some thing would rot and float and eventually fall apart and sink. This could lead to a collection of animals in eddies of the flood and fossil grave yards of thousands of parts mixed together. During the flood there were volcano eruptions, earth quakes, tidal waves ECT… Lots of water above land with moon pull would make a cool tide. Cowabunga dude! This would leave a very interesting trail of evidence as seen around the world.

There is currently enough water to flood the earth easily. If the earth was flat, that is to say round with no hills. Then the water would be very deep. Not that I am suggesting it never had any mountains. The bible does state that all was underwater, so it didn’t need to be completely flat. It just needed smaller mountains and the ocean deeps to not be as deep. The bible states that after being under water for several months that the mountains rise and the basins sink down. Maybe the weight of the water caused the low spots to suddenly sink lower and the mountains to suddenly rise higher. We don’t live on a solid rock of a planet, so it makes sense to me. After this happened the waves were crazy for a while. Talk about some tsunamis! Could you imagine! Even though Noah saw land, he was told not to leave the ark. Big waves would come and go for a while.

Just a few ideas, I couldn’t prove them, but they are possible.

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:09 pm Post subject:

Everyone seems to be discussing "evidence" but as I have already stated how can those holding to an empirical world view claim to gain knowledge of the world/universe around them if observation does not bring about knowledge?

Let's look at it backwards for a brief moment. How much information must be brought to the act of observation? What I mean by this is if we are born with a blank mind how are we able to interpret what we are observing?
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Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject:

always I loved the silence in church when once as a child I observed if we come from Adam, and Eve we are all the result of an incestuous incident, and incidents, and on and on and on.

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:44 pm Post subject:

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:56 pm Post subject:

Incest??!! Speak for yourself. I'm not from West Virginia! Shocked

I understand Sly Ty's concern, but I feel that it is unfounded in this case. I believe that all the participants in this discussion have shown themselves to be open to civil discourse. If we do not share ideas and theories we learn nothing. You don't have to be disagreeable to disagree.

As for "not caring what others believe," I would ask you this, Sly, "Would you want to know if there were others who wanted you to believe as they do so badly that they would cut your head off if you didn't?" I'd sure be interested in knowing who thinks that is an acceptable belief system.

As I see it this is exactly why we have the problems in our culture that we see all around us. Political correctness, the inability to have civil discourse, the want of seeking knowledge for knowledge's sake, have all conspired to render us unable to simply TALK about things. I used to own a supermarket in a predominantly black neighborhood. I would often have frank discussions with my customers about race relations in our area, state, and country. It was fascinating how much we thought alike, but you wouldn't know it based on the news, and self-appointed black leaders.

My point is that we should be able to have these discussions with each other as long as we maintain proper decorum and respect for others. If that were not the case here I am quite sure that those who moderate these forums would have stepped in to "nip it in the bud."
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Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage!

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:42 pm Post subject:

There has been many veiw points expressed in this particular Thread regarding the beliefs of both sides. I don't Think one side will sway the other in their beliefs or opions. With that said before this becomes any more heated I am locking this thread.
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