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Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:10 am Post subject:
Ripping Music form CD's and then Unknown Info |
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Everytime anyone in the family buys a CD, I make an image file of the original disc. I then rip them into MP3 360kbs, Windows Media Audio Lossless, and WAV Lossless files as needed depending on the application. I then keep the ripped files on the PC in case needed again. Safe to say my music is well backed up. 
Here's my issue:
Most of our music shows up as unknown. I always save the files by the name of the CD. Finding and sorting on PC is okay. When I transfer to someones portable or such, every album, song, and artist always shows up as unknown. Is there any way to change this for MP3 360kbs, Windows Media Audio Lossless, and WAV Lossless files?
Album and Artist would be nice, but the Track 01 instead of the actual Song Title is VERY annoying.  Makes it hard to find specific songs when looking thru hundreds of them.
And please tell me I can do this without having to rip each CD again.
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Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:34 am Post subject:
Re: Ripping Music form CD's and then Unknown Info |
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| {uZa}Studdog +SC+ wrote: | Everytime anyone in the family buys a CD, I make an image file of the original disc. I then rip them into MP3 360kbs, Windows Media Audio Lossless, and WAV Lossless files as needed depending on the application. I then keep the ripped files on the PC in case needed again. Safe to say my music is well backed up.
Here's my issue:
Most of our music shows up as unknown. I always save the files by the name of the CD. Finding and sorting on PC is okay. When I transfer to someones portable or such, every album, song, and artist always shows up as unknown. Is there any way to change this for MP3 360kbs, Windows Media Audio Lossless, and WAV Lossless files?
Album and Artist would be nice, but the Track 01 instead of the actual Song Title is VERY annoying. Makes it hard to find specific songs when looking thru hundreds of them.
And please tell me I can do this without having to rip each CD again.
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It can be done with a variety of "tagging" software solutions. Music in most formats has "metadata" stored in the files and can store all kinds of info including artist, title, album, track, year, genre, rating, artist/album pictures etc. In Vista, you can just right click an Mp3 and under properties/details you can edit this info easily.
Best way to do lots of music, as long as it is organized by album (as yours no doubt is since it was ripped from cd's) is a program called Tag & Rename (shareware). It will allow you to highlight an album of songs, and then will go out to the internet music database and get all the ID3 tag info and put it in the files. It will also allow you to automatically rename the files based on the ID3 info, so you can end up with:
The Rolling Stones - Sticky Fingers - 13 - Brown Sugar.mp3
Which is how I like my music named.
A free alternative that is pretty popular is "Media Monkey". Give that a look too.
I don't store in anything but 320kps .Mp3 format so I haven't tried messing with tags for the other formats you mentioned, but both Tag & Rename and Media Monkey claim to handle tag info for WMA/FLAC/WAV etc.
Tag & Rename - http://www.softpointer.com/tr.htm
Media Monkey - http://www.mediamonkey.com/
Eagle
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Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:05 pm Post subject:
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Thanks Eagle!
I'll give the Tag & Rename a try. 
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Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:11 am Post subject:
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Couple of notes...
1) If you run into an album the intenet database doesn't recognize (tracks out of order, missing a song, album REALLY new etc.) you can reverse the process by renaming the actual file name to a common format like the one I showed above "artist - album - track # - title".mp3 and then use that 3rd tab in Tag & Rename to create the ID3 tags from the filename instead of the other way around.
2) If you put the music on a device that stores them in mp3/wma/acc etc, like an IPOD or other digital player, the tag info will display fine. If you convert the music back to audio-CD and burn it on a music CD to play in a regular CD player (like many have in their cars), most regular CD players will not display ID3 info, but will go back to "Track 01", "Track 02" etc.
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Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject:
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I think if you burn with Nero, it will search a database as well for ID3 tags. Most standard ripping programs will search for the info. Windows Media Player will as well in both Vista and XP.
Nero works great for backing up mp3, or another free popular program called aTunes:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/atunes/
I backup all my music in ogg variable at about ~256kb/sec. I like to use lame encoding for mp3. Variable 256 as well.
I then burn all my albums to dvd for storage.
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http://docer.blogspot.com/
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Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:52 pm Post subject:
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| |MF|Morgoth wrote: | I think if you burn with Nero, it will search a database as well for ID3 tags. Most standard ripping programs will search for the info. Windows Media Player will as well in both Vista and XP.
Nero works great for backing up mp3, or another free popular program called aTunes:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/atunes/
I backup all my music in ogg variable at about ~256kb/sec. I like to use lame encoding for mp3. Variable 256 as well.
I then burn all my albums to dvd for storage. |
Nero does not search any internet database or insert ID3 information as you burn CDs. This is not correct. If he had used Nero to rip the CD's in the first place using the "Extras / Save Tracks" function to do the ripping, it would have found and inserted the ID3 information (as well as properly naming the files) as it was ripping, but once ripped, he needs an external program to fix things. Lots of things will do it these days, I just like to use the Cadillac of taggers, Tag & Rename.
As to OGG <grin>, we have had that discussion before. Beta was better than VHS too... Same situation.
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Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:40 pm Post subject:
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My issue is mainly due to most of our CD's do not show up in a data base.
I use Alcohol 120% to make an image file of all our CD's.
I then use Windows Media player to play the image file on the PC. I also use Windows Media Player to rip the image files into MP3 320, Windows Media Audio Lossless, and WAV Lossless as needed.
I use Nero to make MP3 CD's, DVD's, and regular audio CD's from the ripped files or the image file.
Those all work fine, but most of our CD's are not in any data bases and always come back as unknown.
I did download Tag & Rename, but haven't installed it yet. I will do so soon. I think it will work fine for what I am hoping to do. I really don't need anything to play, burn, or store. I am just hoping to be able to change the tags for the album, song, and artist of the the ones that always shows up as unknown. If I burn a CD it usually doesn't matter. Though I do have one CD player in my garage that will display the info. The big issue mainly has to do with IPod, Generic MP3 players, and Microsoft Zune. It really sucks to have 100 songs that all show up as Unknown or Track 01 on these devices.
I'll give you an update after I install Tag & Rename.
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Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:45 pm Post subject:
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| {uZa}Lonesome Eagle wrote: | Nero does not search any internet database or insert ID3 information as you burn CDs. This is not correct. If he had used Nero to rip the CD's in the first place using the "Extras / Save Tracks" function to do the ripping, it would have found and inserted the ID3 information (as well as properly naming the files) as it was ripping, but once ripped, he needs an external program to fix things. Lots of things will do it these days, I just like to use the Cadillac of taggers, Tag & Rename.
As to OGG <grin>, we have had that discussion before. Beta was better than VHS too... Same situation. |
I thought Nero had an online database, or functionality to add online ID3 databases... I could be wrong... but i thought I tinkered with it in Nero 7 Ultra some time ago..
OGG is opensource, and costs nothing for musicians to use it and distribute their music online, thats the only reason I like it.. and it functions well under linux as well. It is hard to find anything that will support it though unless you manage to add a codec yourself into it.
Also calm down Eagle.. I never said one was better than the other 
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http://docer.blogspot.com/
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Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:57 pm Post subject:
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http://www.smartcomputing.com/techsupport/detail.aspx?guid=&ErrorID=38901
I do recall having connection issues for awhile in Nero, but it will and can fetch ID3.. it's just not nearly as user friendly as secondary applications. Plus half the time I wanted Nero to do the tagging for me, it would only get about 30% of what I needed in their own database.
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Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:36 pm Post subject:
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| {uZa}Studdog +SC+ wrote: | My issue is mainly due to most of our CD's do not show up in a data base.
I use Alcohol 120% to make an image file of all our CD's.
I then use Windows Media player to play the image file on the PC. I also use Windows Media Player to rip the image files into MP3 320, Windows Media Audio Lossless, and WAV Lossless as needed.
I use Nero to make MP3 CD's, DVD's, and regular audio CD's from the ripped files or the image file.
Those all work fine, but most of our CD's are not in any data bases and always come back as unknown.
I did download Tag & Rename, but haven't installed it yet. I will do so soon. I think it will work fine for what I am hoping to do. I really don't need anything to play, burn, or store. I am just hoping to be able to change the tags for the album, song, and artist of the the ones that always shows up as unknown. If I burn a CD it usually doesn't matter. Though I do have one CD player in my garage that will display the info. The big issue mainly has to do with IPod, Generic MP3 players, and Microsoft Zune. It really sucks to have 100 songs that all show up as Unknown or Track 01 on these devices.
I'll give you an update after I install Tag & Rename. |
Since you "imaged" the disks rather than "ripping" them with software that inserts the tags as it rips, you may find it difficult to get any program to find them in the online databases. Give Tag & Rename a try, but you might find yourself "ripping" the entire collection from the image files to .mp3 using "Extra / Save Tracks" in Nero in order to get the files initially tagged and named properly.
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| Posted:
Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:57 am Post subject:
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| {uZa}Lonesome Eagle wrote: |
Since you "imaged" the disks rather than "ripping" them with software that inserts the tags as it rips, you may find it difficult to get any program to find them in the online databases. Give Tag & Rename a try, but you might find yourself "ripping" the entire collection from the image files to .mp3 using "Extra / Save Tracks" in Nero in order to get the files initially tagged and named properly. |
The image files are just what I use as my official back-ups and main source for any ripping. Image files are nice because they will be read and ripped at very high speeds and are perfect copies of original CD's. They are exact copies of the original CD's, except I removed any protection that might have been on them. I mount the image file on a virtual drive and the PC thinks it is the original CD. From that point I can rip them to any format using Windows Media Player or other software, or I can make an exact copy of the original CD in standard audio CD format with any software. If it is a commercial CD (let's use Amadeus Soundtrack for example), then WMP will ALWAYS find all the info in the online data base. This example would then rip to any format and all info would always be there. This example would also show correctly if I just mounted the image file and played it from the virtual drive on my PC. WMP does not know it is not the original CD playing.
Now if I do a concert boot leg ( only for example, I wouldn't have any illegal CD's ) or a gospel CD from someone at church for example, then there would be no information on the online data base as would be expected. These are the ones that I am frustrated with. The data base will always show them as unknown and then you know where it goes from there as I rip them. When I rip these CD's there is a tag for each Artist/Album/Art Work/Song, but it's always "Unknown & Track 01, ect...". So I think the Tag and Rename should do what I am wanting. I just don't look forward to all the typing.
So the image file doesn't really cause any issues with being checked in a data base. It's just the non-commercial CD's that cause issues and I have lots of them. Commercial CD's always turn out correct.
I use the image files as the ripping source for every format. That way quality is always high. I put every CD in folders by type of music (classical, bluegrass, ect...). I then have sub-folders by band names and subfolders again by Album name. In the album name folder I have the image file and if it ever gets ripped to a different format these would also be in that folder.
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Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:13 am Post subject:
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Ah, ok. I see what you are doing with Alcohol. That will work fine (although a bit heavy on disk space usage). Unfortunately for those non-commercial cds you are probably going to be stuck with ripping them to something that supports tags (mp3, wma, wav) and then using the method of changing the file names to reflect the information you want in the tags - ie:
artist - album - track# - song title.mp3
Then you can use Tag & Rename (using that 3rd tab) to insert the ID3 tag information based on the file name mask.
Then just keep the "ripped" versions of those cds around and burn from them instead of from the alcohol images.
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Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject:
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You make a good point Eagle. And yes, I don't use Nero anymore for ripping... so whatever functionality it had, wasn't good enough for me to bother using. As far as I know Tag & Rename is the most popular of its kind out there. I am just one for not liking to use multiple different applications to perform the simple task of ripping a music disc.
As for ripping in full size value, FLAC is one way to go about that... but if you rip in 320kb/sec like Eagle suggested, I highly doubt there will be any noticeable sound quality difference. http://flac.sourceforge.net/
Media Player Classic or VLC palyer will support most encoding methods for playback.
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http://docer.blogspot.com/
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Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject:
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| |MF|Morgoth wrote: | You make a good point Eagle. And yes, I don't use Nero anymore for ripping... so whatever functionality it had, wasn't good enough for me to bother using. As far as I know Tag & Rename is the most popular of its kind out there. I am just one for not liking to use multiple different applications to perform the simple task of ripping a music disc.
As for ripping in full size value, FLAC is one way to go about that... but if you rip in 320kb/sec like Eagle suggested, I highly doubt there will be any noticeable sound quality difference. http://flac.sourceforge.net/
Media Player Classic or VLC palyer will support most encoding methods for playback. |
Tag & Rename isn't really needed much if you rip stuff using a tool that gets the ID3 info and inserts it in the first place. (Nero has always worked ok for me, but I think the CCDB database isn't as well maintained anymore and programs that use Last.fm to look up info seem to do a better job these days)
Tag & Rename is VERY useful for cleaning up a collection that you have put together over a long time, where you used different ripping / saving methods over time and the tag information is "spotty" or inconsistent. It is particularly useful if you download albums from torrent or usenet, where you never know what kind of crap you are going to get in the naming of files and the quality of the ID3 tags.
I have been building a collection for years, starting with probably a couple hundred purchased CD's I ripped using Nero and then filled out with just tons of stuff downloaded from Napster, then Kazaa, usenet and bitorrent. I started out right by ripping to a structure like this:
My Documents
-Music
--00's - 90's (Random songs not on an album I wanted or "one hit wonders" go in these folders by date)
--80's - 70's
--60's - 50's
--A-F (Albums by artist in these folders by artist name / album / track number)
--G-M
--N-S
---Rolling Stones
----Rolling Stones - Sticky Fingers
-----Rolling Stones - Sticky Fingers - 13 - Brown Sugar.mp3
--T-Z
--Soundtracks
--Comedy
As I said I use(d) Nero to do the ripping from CD's, and it did the file naming and ID3 tagging automatically, with probably a 90% success rate. Albums downloaded from the internet I always ran through Tag & Rename to make the filenames consistent with my system and correct all ID3 tag info. Individual songs I would rename using my pattern and then use Tag & Rename to use the filename mask to update the ID3 tags.
Now that I have my collection pretty much 100% cleaned up, in a directory structure that makes sense, and all tagged with correct information, I can use just about any of the decent programs to listen to music, burn CD's, transfer to digital players, ect.
I have found a reasonably new one called "Teen Spirit", (yeah, dumb name, but a GREAT program) that I have fallen in love with. It allows you to display your "library" in different ways (artist / album, directory structure, genre, year, whatever) and automatically goes out to Last.fm and gets artists info / pictures / biography / discography, song lyrics, album cover pictures etc, and has a great player that changes to a nice "mini-player" when the program is minimized.
aTunes (you mentioned it as well) is also a nice "organizer / player" that is fairly new and seems really good. I just find that Teen Spirit gets more info / lyrics / pictures and such that display while you are listening to your music, which I find entertaining.
http://www.artificialspirit.com/
If you click on an artist, you get artist info and pictures
If you click on an album you get album info / cover picture
If you click on a song, you get the lyrics
This is how you have it if you are completely anal retentive about this stuff...
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| Posted:
Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:56 pm Post subject:
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I installed Tag&Rename v3.4.6. It does exactly what I was wanting it to do. Lots of typing, but well worth the effort. I will have to learn some more of what this software can do. It seems really cool.
THANKS EAGLE! 
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